Alastair Campbell explains 'Percivillians' and political resilience in studio interview

Alastair Campbell has given a studio interview about his new book Percivillians, using the appearance to set out a personal and political theory of perseverance and resilience. The book's title, he said, is a made-up word that combines those two ideas and tries to turn them into positive concepts. Asked whether this was a form of spin, he said it was not about pretending problems did not exist, but about agency and finding something good in a bad situation.

On mental health, Campbell said the book ranges across politics, mental health, grief and relationships. He rejected the suggestion that his approach amounts to bottling things up. Talking about problems is part of the method, he said, and he described his own experience of depression. He said he is now better at working out how to reach a better place even when he is depressed, often with help from others, and he argued that governments and countries can apply the same mindset.

On politics, he held up Tony Blair as an example of the idea, saying Blair's mindset in a crisis was not just to get through it but to go beyond it. He said Gordon Brown had that quality at times. He said Keir Starmer has real resilience, but that it is not the same as the book's idea, because Starmer was fine at getting through a crisis or managing a problem. He cited Andy Burnham as someone who had learned a huge amount and grown from setbacks, including losing two leadership elections and being booed at Anfield. He also discussed Burnham's media work, including an appearance on Gogglebox with Liverpool mayor Steve Rotheram, saying relatability can help but it would be a problem if that were all he did. Campbell said he hated his own Gogglebox experience but had no objection as long as Burnham kept doing the big issues such as defence, welfare and the economy.

On public figures, Campbell said one chapter considers how bad people can have the quality too. He said Donald Trump has a form of it: Trump lost the election but never admitted it and persuaded millions of Americans sufficiently to elect him again. Campbell said true resilience of this kind requires values and integrity, and that Trump falls down there. He said Vladimir Putin has shown the quality through his long period in power, but questioned his values and integrity. He said Volodymyr Zelensky has it.

On Iraq, the interview turned to Tony Blair. Campbell said Blair remains adamant that the decision was right based on what was known at the time, while accepting that hindsight has changed the debate. Campbell said humility has to fit with resilience. He mentioned an Iraqi taxi driver who told him he was glad Saddam Hussein had gone and that Iraq was better for all its challenges. He also cited Finland as an example of a resilient nation and the Finnish word sisu, saying the person he spoke to described part of it as knowing when to give up on something.